YouTube Banned in Turkey After Insults to Ataturk

Yet another example of intolerance demonstrated by Turkey, which is not so nearly a secular country as its defenders claim. Insulting to Ataturk? what about the crimes of Turkey v. Armenians and Greeks? Turkey in the European Union? I hope never.

Last November, I spent three weeks in Turkey. I was instantly fascinated and have started doing a lot of reading and research into that amazing and rich culture. One of the first things any student of the Turkish culture learns is that there is one person no Turk will EVER criticize: Ataturk. It isn’t just because it is against the law to do so; it is more than that, deeper than that. It seems to me, as an outsider looking in, that insulting or in any way depreciating the value of the man who founded modern Turkey is experienced as a deeply personal assault on actual identity. Ataturk’s image is everywhere: on bills, on coins, towering over streets, looking on from the airport named for him in Istanbul and in countless elegant photos found throughout the country. In those images, it seems, there is a reminder of what it means to be Turkish since, before Ataturk, there was simply no such thing, no such identity.

From that, we get to the whole notion of insulting Turkishness.

Turkish writers Orhan Pamuk, the Nobel laureate, and Elif Shafak, author of the new book “The Bastard of Istanbul” (which takes on the question of Armenian genocide) have been convicted of “insulting Turkishness;” both cases were subsequently dismissed due to a technicality, but not before the point was made.

The YouTube incident may well have inadvertently caused the spark that ignites the issue that must be addressed if Turkey is be granted permission to join the EU. It seems to me that no discussion of Armenian genocide can ever be broached without a rescinding of the Article regarding insulting Turkishness.

Yes, this is silly. No, it should not be illegal to “insult Turkishness”. But while it is easy to look at this as “yet another backwards country denying freedom of speech”, maybe we (“the West”, whatever that is) shouldn’t be so quick to pat ourselves on the back.

— Broadcasting and attempting to subscribe to Al-Manar (half-accurately referred to in the US as ‘Hezboallah TV’) is now illegal in the US. Trying to watch the wrong TV channel can put you in prison as a terrorist.

— Also last year, secret service agents went into a high school, pulled a 14-year-old girl out of class and scared the bejeezus out of her – without even calling her parents! – because she’d posted the clearly-not-an-actual-death-threat
message Kill Bush! on her myspace page.

— Austria (which didn’t have any problem joining the EU, BTW) last year sentenced a historian to three years in prison for denying the holocuast. That’s years in prison for writing a book.

— A few years ago, the McLibel “guilty” verdict, widley condemned as ridiculous, very nearly cost two ordinary people their livelihood. And would have, if public outcry had not forced Mickey D’s to forego collecting libel ‘damages’.

These are just a few instances of how much “Western” free speech is dependent on what corporations and goverments want. We could get into the more subtle “freedom of the press belong to those who own the presses” truism, but the above instances are enough that we should maybe hold our fire on Turkey and worry about our own censors.

On both “sides”… this is incredibly immature. I suppose we shouldn’t expect more on the internet. This kind of stupidity feeds into the Turk-Greek animosity which seems to have no end. I bet you anything this whole fiasco will spiral into yet another endless debate about Cyprus. I want a peaceful solution to that dilemma as much as anyone else but this pointless mudslinging from Greeks and Turks accomplishes nothing. It’s all utterly absurd.

Turkey and the Ottoman Empire ruled a vast and varied portion of Asia, Africa and Europe, then declined and lost their holdings and became the “sick man of Europe”, until Kemal Ataturk lifted them out of the past and reformed Turkey into a secular state. Many Turks adore him, but the wave of Islamic fundamentalism has reveresed some of those gains.
Turkey has to confront three demons before it becomes part of the European Union. First, an acknowledgment and apology for the Armenian genocide, secondly, a humane and peaceful solution for thr Kurdish problem and lastly, better relations with Greece and the Greek Cypriots. Until these priorities are seriously addressed and resolved, Turkey will not forge ahead and continue as a progressive Islamic democracy, a rarity in the Muslim world.
Banning YouTube or imposing control on media is not the answer.

Mustafa Kemal did not so much get rid of religion in Turkey as replace it with himself. Today, you might as well say “There is no State but Turkey, and Ataturk, is Her Leader.” He’s a god in the eyes of many Turks, and what seems completely logical to them (don’t insult Turkishness, the “so-called” Genocide is a fabrication, Turks are the greatest people) is completely laughable by the rest of the world. If Turks can’t take the heat for being criticized as less than saintly figures in history, they better start looking at their own warped view of themselves before they decide to censor another media outlet, or kill another journalist.

Suggested reading: “Birds Without Wings” by Louis de Berniers (or anything else by him, but that would be off subject)

Crybaby is the perfect word.

The state of Turkey flips out when the image of Ataturk is tarnished, even by a bunch of youtube kids nobody takes seriously. Meanwhile, that same state insults every victim of the Armenian genocide, and their descendants every day by actively denying the Armenian Genocide ever took place, and passing laws which lead very obviously to the assassination of Hrant Dink 2 months ago.

They still refuse to establish diplomatic relations with Armenia, because they’re so angry with it for not simply disappearing off the face of the earth like they wanted.

[apologies for my long-winded diatribe, feel free to hit page down a couple times]
Sure it’s somewhat fascist and backward for Turkey to ban YouTube, but remember that most countries act the same or much, much worse, eg: China, Iran, Myanmar, and so forth. It’s how totalitarian states work. In Russia, they simply kill the naysayers.

But before everyone beats up on Turkey, I think we should consider that we desperately need them to join the E.U. and become an equal partner in the modern Western world. Mainly because they are the strongest military force in the middle east, with the possible exception of Israel, who is already committed to our side.

Realistically, a massive conflict with all of fundamentalist Islam is inevitable, thanks to what fundamentalists believe. They declared jihad on the saner world years ago, and they’re the kind of nutjobs who would rather die then change their minds. So, logically, they must die, and benefit the rest of the world thereby.

Turkey is one of the most secular muslim countries, and we need as many allies like that as we can get, so it seems to me that banning YouTube, or Maxim magazine, or whatever else they want is completely unimportant. When the time comes to eradicate the fundamentalist threat, it would be much better to have Turkey with us than against us.

If you think I’m some sort of genocidal madman, maybe you should check out what Islamists say about the western world, Israel, and so forth. They want to kill us all. They want Sharia law in England. There’s certainly no reasoning with them. And let’s face it, overpopulation is a big problem, which fundamentalists add to the most, so wiping them out will benefit the world as a whole.

Was I permanently scarred by 9/11? You bet! Do I wish all fundamentalists, men, women, and children, would die today and leave the rest of us in relative peace? Exactly so! Do I care at all if Turks watch YouTube? Not in the slightest! Do I enjoy mocking Rumsfeld’s manner of speech? Goodness gracious yes!

In this Internet era, banning any Web sites like YouTube will severely damage a country’s international image and economic prospect (e.g., Internet startups, foreign investment). Turkey seems to have gone the wrong path.

I agree with Saladin Ahmed. The West cannot judge the standard of other countries and disregard its own application of regulations. The Greek- Turkish insults are a symptom which expression will be violence. Why would the world expect the Turks to be insulted and not react? Why would the world not expect the Greek Embassy to blow up or so? Limiting speech in this instance is actually working toward reconciliation, alliance and understanding. The Greek troublemakers hope for a violent reaction from Turkey so they can yet again cast themselves as “victims.”

Certain things are sacred. Certain men are. And for the sake of “physical” peace, restrictions on speech is needed. Greece should also forbid such expression of hate under anti-hate and racial incitations to hate. There has always been a minority of Turks in Eastern Greece, kept as hostage by Athens. Nobody talks against segregation and discrimination in this case.

I read today that Turkey has passed legislation that bans the actual ‘thought’ of insulting this Atuturk guy (he is NOT gay by the way, though he does know a good looking man when he sees one).

That’s right; should you even think about insulting this man (who is not gay), you can be imprisoned. So don’t you even think about it!

So for example, if I say out loud, “Aturtak’ is gay!” I will have already committed a crime for having thought about it before saying it, effectively committing two crimes….

Ataboy Turkey!