Lizzo: ‘This time I tried to be more benevolent than belligerent’

Lizzo, aka Melissa Jefferson, was born in Detroit in 1988, raised in Houston and now lives in Minneapolis. Her music is as peripatetic as her background, skipping from southern rap to soul to indie rock. In 2011 she helped form the female rap/R&B group the Chalice, and in 2013 released her solo debut, Lizzobangers, co-produced by Gayngs frontman Ryan Olson. Her highly acclaimed second album, Big GRRRL Small World, is out now.

You’ve moved around a lot. How would you describe your sound?

Even though I was born in Detroit and grew up listening to gospel music, my sound is very connected to Houston rap. I’ve always loved the swag and sing-songiness of rappers like Lil’ Flip and Mike Jones. So on record you’re going to hear a lot of Houston influence, whereas on stage you’re going to see straight-up Detroit gospel soul. Minneapolis has helped me grow on the production side. And if you listen very closely you’ll hear some classical influence – I was studying flute for half of my life.

How did the new album come together?

As soon as Lizzobangers came out, I started writing new songs, but lyrically it wasn’t going in the right direction. I made at least 25 demos that didn’t end up on the album. Then I finally got to a point where I figured out what I wanted to say and it flowed.

What happened?

I did an interview for the What’s Underneath video project – the idea is that you strip and talk. It was hard, but it led me to a catharsis where it was like, “Oh, people are responding positively to my appearance, I shouldn’t be ashamed of this. In fact, why am I not talking about it more?”

Did you find these issues – body size, skin colour, racial politics – difficult to talk about?

I think it was more difficult to hold back. If you listen to Lizzobangers, I’m so angry, I’m almost yelling. This time I tried to refine myself and broaden the message so more people can understand me. I tried to be more benevolent than belligerent.

What was making you angry?

As a black person I’ve always been hyper-aware of the injustice we face, of the racism that has been masked. I was angry about it but didn’t have a sounding board, until I went solo. Then I let it all out: frustration with myself and the position I put myself in, also frustrations on a socially conscious level, they all kind of swirled together.

What else changed?

I think that I developed as a songwriter. I did less sitting down and writing in a journal and more freestyling in the studio, which made a huge difference.

Give me an example…

The single My Skin was actually a freestyle. [The producer] Bionik played a beat and I just went in the back and freestyled over it. I was looking at this picture he had, from Uganda I think, of these women holding baskets, these beautiful brown women, and I was freestyling about them. Originally I referenced Beyoncé’s “I woke up like this” [a line from Flawless], but then we changed it so it was about waking up in your skin.

I can hear snippets of songs by other artists throughout the album. There’s a Rick James reference on En Love.

Oh God, I’ve always been referential. It’s a gift and a curse because now the licensing people are like, “What? That’s going to be expensive!” The Rick James thing is going to cost me, but I like referencing pop phenomena. It’s very natural to me. It’s a hip-hop thing too.

Where do you find inspiration?

I often draw from very mundane human experiences. The stuff that causes huge drama in my life, say if I have a huge emotional fallout with somebody, I’ll try to work it out in real life instead. I talk about more simple things like being on the road, dealing with my hair or cleaning my room. A lot of people write songs from breakups and heartache and huge fights. I can’t do that! It’s too personal.

You worked with Prince in 2014 [on Boytrouble]. What was he like?

I didn’t meet him! When I arrived at the soundcheck at Paisley Park, he had just left. I was like, nooo! But I have his stamp of approval – he named me as one of the five artists you need to be listening to in the New York Post. I was like, “Wow, thank you sir!” I’m still in awe.